Naval Podcast

Naval on wealth and happiness. On Twitter at @naval.

The Path to Peace Is Truth
Discovering the truth can change you where self-improvement fails.   Transcript:

How to Get Rich: Every Episode
This giant episode collects every interview I’ve done on “How to Get Rich.” It includes 10 minutes of unreleased material—at the end—on “Finding Time to Invest in Yourself.” Transcript: Seek Wealth, Not Money or Status 1:30 Make Abundance for the World 6:40 Free Markets Are Intrinsic to Humans 10:21 Making Money Isn’t About Luck 14:19 Make Luck Your Destiny 19:25 You Won’t Get Rich Renting Out Your Time 24:00 Live Below Your Means for Freedom 28:40 Give Society What It Doesn’t Know How to...

How to Angel Invest
A preview of Spearhead, our other podcast, where we discuss angel investing. Subscribe to the podcast: Apply to Spearhead: • How to Angel Invest 1:52 • Strong Opinions, Loosely Held 3:49 • Living in a Tech Hub Is Half the Battle 5:27 • You’re Living Inside the Gold Mine 8:25 • IPOs Are for the Last Investors in Line 13:12 • Being a Founder Your Entire Life Is a Tough Road 16:06 • Investing Takes Capital, Judgment and Dealflow 19:09 • Don’t Let Deals Pass on Yo...

Externalities: Calculating the Hidden Costs of Products
Externalities let you account for the true cost of products by including hidden costs like environmental damage. • Pricing externalities properly is more effective than feel-good measures 0:32 • Properly pricing externalities can save resources in a tremendous way 1:10 Transcript:

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Net Present Value: What Future Income Is Worth Today
Calculate what future income is worth today by applying a discount to its future value. • Figure out what future income is worth today by applying a discount rate 0:00 Transcript:

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Consumer Surplus: Getting More Than You Paid For
A lot of people are willing to pay more than what companies charge. • Consumer surplus is the extra value you get when you pay less than you were willing 0:00 Transcript:

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Price Discrimination: Charge Some People More
You can charge people for extras based on their propensity to pay. • Price discrimination is a technique for charging certain people more 0:00 • Rich people and large enterprises are willing to pay more 0:51 Transcript:

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Compounding Relationships Make Life Easier
Life gets a lot easier when you know someone’s got your back. • Compounding relationships make life easier 0:00 • It’s better to have a few compounding relationships than many shallow ones 1:11 • It takes just as much effort to create a small business as a large one 1:40 Transcript:

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Pre-Tax Compounding Beats Post-Tax Compounding
We all know compounding is a powerful force, but there are nuances. • Pre-tax compounding is more powerful than post-tax compounding 0:00 • Funds that mark-to-market annually don’t compound as quickly 1:28 Transcript:

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Turn Short-Term Games Into Long-Term Games
Improve your leverage in negotiations by turning short-term relationships into long-term ones. • Pareto optimal solutions require a trade-off to improve any criterion 0:00 • Negotiations are won by whoever cares less 0:44 • Convert single-move games to multi-move games 1:54 Transcript:

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Schelling Point: Cooperating Without Communicating
People who can’t communicate can cooperate by anticipating the other person’s actions. • Use social norms to cooperate when you can’t communicate 0:00 • You can find Schelling points in business, art and politics 1:14 Transcript:

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Kelly Criterion: Avoid Ruin
Don't ruin your reputation or get wiped to zero. • Don't bet everything on one big gamble 0:00 • Ruining your reputation is the same as getting wiped to zero 0:54 Transcript:

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Principal-Agent Problem: Act Like an Owner
If you think and act like an owner, it’s only a matter of time until you become an owner. • A principal is an owner; an agent is an employee 0:00 • A principal’s incentives are different than an agent’s incentives 1:08 • If you can work on incentives, don't work on anything else 2:15 • When you do deals, it’s better to have the same incentives 3:15 • If you’re an employee, your most important job is to think like a principal 4:05 • Deal with small firms to avoid the principal-agent problem 5:29 Transcript: ...

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Envy Can Be Useful, or It Can Eat You Alive
Envy can give you a powerful boost, or it can eat you alive if you let it follow you. • Suffering through the wrong thing can motivate you to find the right thing 0:00 • Being a lawyer was not what I was meant to do 1:14 • Envy can be useful or it can eat you alive 2:28 Transcript:

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Being Ethical Is Long-Term Greedy
If you cut fair deals, you will get paid in the long run. • Ethics isn’t something you study; it’s something you do 0:00 • Trust leads to compounding relationships 0:51 • Being ethical attracts other long-term players 1:19 • Being ethical is long-term greedy 1:58 • If you cut fair deals, you will get paid in the long run 2:40 Transcript:

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We Should Eventually Be Working for Ourselves
The goal is that we are eventually wealthy and working for ourselves. • This advice is for anybody who wants to be entrepreneurial 0:00 • Middle age can be the most fruitful time to apply this advice 0:48 • Look up the value chain to find leverage 1:58 • You will do better in a small organization 2:43 • The goal is that we are all working for ourselves 3:25 Transcript:

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Accountability Means Letting People Criticize You
Misunderstanding accountability, and other mistakes on the path to creating wealth. • Accountability means letting people criticize you 0:00 • The most interesting parts should be the ones you disagree with 1:06 • Get the free leverage that's available in tech 1:53 • Not doing things because other people can't do them is living in denial 2:21 • Realize your philanthropic vision by running a business 2:54 Transcript:

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How to Get Rich: Every Episode
This giant episode collects every interview I’ve done on “How to Get Rich.” It includes 10 minutes of unreleased material—at the end—on “Finding Time to Invest in Yourself.” Transcript: Seek Wealth, Not Money or Status 1:30 Make Abundance for the World 6:40 Free Markets Are Intrinsic to Humans 10:21 Making Money Isn’t About Luck 14:19 Make Luck Your Destiny 19:25 You Won’t Get Rich Renting Out Your Time 24:00 Live Below Your Means for Freedom 28:40 Give Society What It Doesn’t Know How to...

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Productize Yourself
Figure out what you're uniquely good at and apply as much leverage as possible. • Figure out what you're uniquely good at and apply as much leverage as possible 0:00 • Find hobbies that make you rich, fit and creative 1:07 Transcript:

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There Are No Get Rich Quick Schemes
Get rich quick schemes are just someone else getting rich off you. • There are no get rich quick schemes 0:00 • We don't have ads because it would ruin our credibility 0:56 • Every founder has to lie to every employee 2:02 • Anyone giving advice on how to get rich should have made their money elsewhere 3:02 Transcript:

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A Calm Mind, a Fit Body, a House Full of Love
When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place. • When you're wealthy, you'll realize it wasn't what you were seeking 0:00 • A calm mind, a fit body and a house full of love must be earned 1:00 • Practical advice for a calmer internal state 1:52 • A lot of divorces happen over money, a lot of battles happen over internal anger 3:14 Transcript:

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Reject Most Advice
Most advice is people giving you their winning lottery ticket numbers. • The best founders listen to everyone but make up their own mind 0:00 • Advice is maxims you can recall later, when you get your own experience 1:29 Transcript:

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Eventually You Will Get What You Deserve
Apply specific knowledge with leverage and eventually you will get what you deserve. • On a long enough time scale you will get paid 0:00 • What are you really good at that the market values? 1:59 Transcript:

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Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes
Competition will blind you to greater games. You're one step away from a better market. • Businesses that seem like they're in direct competition really aren't 0:00 • My first company got caught up in the wrong game 1:23 Transcript:

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Escape Competition Through Authenticity
Competition can make you play the wrong game. No one can compete with you on being you. • Competition will trap you in a lesser game 0:00 • No one can compete with you on being you 1:27 • In entrepreneurship, the masses are never right 2:40 • Combine your vocation and avocation 3:45 Transcript:

Keep Redefining What You Do
Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do until this is true. • Keep redefining what you do until you're the best at what you do 0:00 • Find founder-product-market fit 1:35 Transcript:

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Be Too Busy to “Do Coffee”
You should be too busy to “do coffee”, while still keeping an uncluttered calendar. • Be too busy to “do coffee” while keeping an uncluttered calendar 0:00 • People will meet with you when you have proof of work 2:00 • Networking is overrated even early in your career 2:09 Transcript:

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Work As Hard As You Can
Work as hard as you can. Even though what you work on and who you work with are more important. • Work as hard as you can 0:00 • But what you work on and who you work with are more important 1:00 • Nobody really works 80 hours a week 2:22 • Inspiration is perishable 3:05 • Impatience with actions, patience with results 3:36 Transcript:

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Set an Aspirational Hourly Rate
If outsourcing a task will cost less than your hourly rate, outsource it. • Set and enforce an aspirational hourly rate 0:00 • You can't penny pinch your way to wealth 1:27 • My aspirational rate was $5,000/hr 1:56 • If you can outsource something for less than your hourly rate, outsource it 2:57 • Your hourly rate should seem absurdly high 3:39 Transcript:

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Judgment Is the Decisive Skill
Everything we've discussed so far has been setting you up to apply judgment. • In an age of infinite leverage, judgment becomes the most important skill 0:00 • Everything else you do is setting you up to apply judgment 1:21 • Judgment is knowing the long-term consequences of your actions 2:40 • Without experience, judgment is often less than useless 3:15 • The people with the best judgment are among the least emotional 4:05 • A lot of the top investors often sound like philosophers 5:18 • The more outraged ...

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Example: From Laborer to Real Estate Tech
The continuum from laborer to real estate tech company goes from low accountability to high specific knowledge, accountability and leverage. • Laborers get paid hourly and have low accountability 0:19 • General contractors get equity, but they're also taking risk 1:20 • Property developers pocket the profit by applying capital leverage 2:14 • Architects, large developers and REITs are even higher in the stack 3:16 • Real estate tech companies apply the maximum leverage 4:05 Transcript:

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Pick a Business Model With Leverage
Ideally, you should pick a business model with network effects, low marginal costs and scale economies. • Scale economies: the more you produce, the cheaper it gets 0:00 • Zero marginal cost of reproduction: producing more is free 0:51 • Network effects: value grows as the square of the customers 1:34 • Network effect businesses are natural monopolies 2:26 • In a network effect, each new user adds value to the existing users 3:06 • Zero marginal cost businesses can pivot into network effect businesses 5:01 ...

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Product Leverage Is Egalitarian
Labor and capital are limited to the people who control those resources. But products reach global markets. • Product leverage is a positive-sum game 0:00 • Status goods are limited to a few people 0:57 • The best products tend to be targeted at the middle class 1:25 • Creating wealth with product leads to more ethical wealth 2:06 • You want to use the product that is used by the most people 3:06 • Capital and labor are becoming permissionless 4:24 Transcript:

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Product and Media Are New Leverage
Product and media are the leverage of new wealth. Create software and media that work for you while you sleep. • Product and media are the new leverage 0:00 • Product leverage is where the new fortunes are made 0:55 • Combining all three forms of leverage is a magic combination 1:28 • Product and media leverage are permissionless 2:03 • The robots army is already here—code lets you tell them what to do 2:59 Transcript:

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Labor and Capital Are Old Leverage
Wealth requires leverage. Labor and capital are older forms of leverage that everyone is fighting over. • Our brains aren't evolved to comprehend new forms of leverage 0:00 • Society overvalues labor leverage 1:08 • You want the minimum amount of labor that allows you to use the other forms of leverage 1:56 • Capital has been the dominant form of leverage in the last century 2:40 • You need specific knowledge and accountability to obtain capital 4:52 Transcript:

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Take Accountability to Earn Equity
If you have high accountability, you're less replaceable and you can get a piece of the business. • Accountability is how you're going to get equity 0:00 • Taking accountability is like taking equity in all your work 0:29 • The downside of accountability is not that large 2:11 • Accountability is reputational skin in the game 4:30 Transcript:

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Embrace Accountability to Get Leverage
Embrace accountability. Society will reward you with leverage. • You have to have accountability to get leverage 0:00 • Take business risks under your own name 0:54 • A well-functioning team has clear accountability for each position 2:09 • People who can fail in public have a lot of power 3:47 Transcript:

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There's No Actual Skill Called Business
There's no actual skill called business. Avoid business schools and magazines. • There's no actual skill called business 0:00 • Doing is faster than watching 0:55 • The number of “doing” iterations drives the learning curve 2:49 • If you're willing to bleed a little every day, you may win big later 3:53 Transcript:

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The Foundations Are Math and Logic
If you understand mathematics and logic, you have the basis for understanding everything else. • The ultimate foundations are math and logic: 0:00 • It’s better to read a great book slowly than to fly through a hundred books quickly: 1:22 • Learn persuasion and programming: 2:08 Transcript:

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Read What You Love Until You Love to Read
You should be able to pick up any book in the library and read it. • Read what you love until you love to read: 0:00 • Read the original scientific books in a field: 1:44 • Don't fear any book: 2:43 • The means of learning are abundant, the desire to learn is scarce: 3:54 Transcript:

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Learn to Sell, Learn to Build
Learn to sell. Learn to build. If you can do both, you will be unstoppable.  • Learn to sell, learn to build 0:00 • The Silicon Valley model is a builder and seller 1:07 • If you can do both you will be unstoppable 1:52 • I'd rather teach an engineer marketing than a marketer engineering 2:48 • Building is better when you're starting out, sales scales better over time 4:33 Transcript:

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Specific Knowledge Is Highly Creative or Technical
Specific knowledge tends to be creative or technical. It's on the bleeding edge of technology, art and communication. • Specific knowledge can be taught through apprenticeships 0:00 • Specific knowledge is often highly creative or technical 0:45 • Specific knowledge is specific to the individual and situation 2:02 • You can't be too deliberate about assembling specific knowledge 3:01 • Build specific knowledge where you are a natural 4:44 Transcript:

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Arm Yourself With Specific Knowledge
Arm yourself with specific knowledge. It can't be trained but it can be found by pursuing your genuine curiosity. • Arm yourself with specific knowledge 0:00 • Specific knowledge can't be trained 1:47 • Specific knowledge is found by pursuing your curiosity 2:34 • Building specific knowledge will feel like play to you 3:53 Transcript:

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Partner With Rational Optimists
Don't partner with cynics and pessimists. Their beliefs are self-fulfilling. • Don't partner with pessimists 0:00 • Partner with rational optimists 1:20 • We're descended from pessimists 2:28 • BOCTAOE 4:13 Transcript:

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Pick Partners With Intelligence, Energy and Integrity
Picking partners with high intelligence, energy and integrity is the three-part checklist that you can't compromise on. • Pick business partners with high intelligence, energy and integrity 0:00 • Motivation of the people you work with has to come intrinsically 1:18 • Integrity is what someone does, despite what they say they do 2:18 Transcript:

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Play Long-term Games With Long-term People
Pick an industry where you can play long-term games with long-term people. All returns in life come from compound interest over many turns of the game. • Play long-term games with long-term people 0:00 • When you switch industries, you're starting over from scratch 2:21 • Long-term players make each other rich 4:02 • Returns come from compound interest in iterated games 4:49 Transcript:

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The Internet Has Massively Broadened Career Possibilities
The Internet has massively broadened the possible space of careers, by allowing you to scale any niche obsession. • The Internet has massively broadened the possible space of careers 0:00 • The Internet allows you to scale any niche obsession 1:22 • Escape competition through authenticity 3:33 Transcript:

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Give Society What It Doesn't Know How to Get
Society will pay you for creating what it wants, but doesn’t know how to get, and delivering it at scale. • Give society what it wants, but doesn't know how to get—at scale 0:00 • Figure out what product you can provide and then figure out how to scale it 0:57 Transcript:

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Live Below Your Means for Freedom
People living far below their means enjoy a freedom that people busy upgrading their lifestyles just can't fathom. • People living below their means have freedom 0:00 • The most dangerous things are heroin and a monthly salary 0:38 • Ideally, you'll make your money in discrete lumps 1:17 Transcript:

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You Won't Get Rich Renting Out Your Time
You won't get rich renting out your time, because you can't earn non-linearly. • You won't get rich renting out your time 0:00 • Renting out your time means you're essentially replaceable 1:23 • You must own equity to gain your financial freedom 2:17 • You want a career where your inputs don't match your outputs 2:41 Transcript:

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Make Luck Your Destiny
Build your character in a way so luck becomes deterministic.  • Build your character so luck becomes your destiny 0:00 • Build your character so opportunity finds you 1:12 • You have to be a little eccentric to be out on the frontier by yourself 2:39  Transcript:

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Making Money Isn't About Luck
Making money isn't about luck. It's about becoming the kind of person who makes money. • Making money isn't about luck 0:00 • Blind luck 0:46 • Luck from hustling 0:55 • Luck from preparation 1:35 • Luck from your unique character 1:51 • In 1,000 parallel universes, you want to be wealthy in 999 of them 2:54 • Wealth stacks up one chip at a time, not all at once 4:11 Transcript:

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Free Markets Are Intrinsic to Humans
We're the only animals who cooperate across genetic boundaries, because we can track credits and debits in voluntary exchanges. • Free markets are intrinsic to the human species 0:00 • Too many takers and not enough makers will plunge a society into ruin 1:48  Transcript:

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Make Abundance for the World
Wealth isn't about taking something from somebody else—it's about creating abundance for the world.  • Ethical wealth creation makes abundance for the world 0:00 • Everyone can be wealthy 1:28  Transcript:

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Seek Wealth, Not Money or Status
The difference between wealth, money and status.    • Wealth is assets that earn while you sleep 0:56 • Money is how we transfer wealth 2:28 • Status is your rank in the social hierarchy 3:08 Transcript: This is the first interview between Naval and Nivi on How to Get Rich. These interviews are based on Naval's tweetstorm at

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